Wednesday, 15 April 2015

Understanding the 380 C2R2

Set up: Understanding the Marzocchi 380 C2R2 Ti 2014 & 2015 380 C2R2 Ti and steel spring.



The 380 has a lot of adjustments, here is a guide to what everything does. Every adjustment is relative to the spring rate, so get the spring correct and work from here.

Spring options

Titanium
Soft k=4.4 " 5141956
Medium k=5,5" 5141918 (standard spring in 2014 forks)
Hard k=6.5" 5141957 (standard spring in 2015 forks)
X Hard k=7.7" 5141958/P

Steel
Soft k=4.4 " 5141959
Medium k=5,4" 5141923
Hard k=6.5" 5141960 (standard spring in 2015 forks)
X hard k=7.7" 5141961

Note: The stock spring changed between 2014 and 2015 due to the fork feeling too soft as the fork generates far less fiction compared to the 888 model. These springs are also used in the 888.

Pre-load adjuster
Spring Pre-load
Spring pre-load can be done with the external RH adjuster on top of the fork. Pre-loading the spring will compress them slightly and increase the initial force needed to compress the spring. Marzocchi forks can use the maximum amount of pre-load from the adjuster and the fork will still get full travel. Spring pre-load is used to fine-tune the spring rate to adjust for the proper sag measurement. Minimal spring pre-load is recommended for better performance and longer working life of the springs, so it is better to change to a stiffer spring rate than to add significant pre-load (10+ turns.)
Sag refers to how much the fork compresses when the rider is in the normal riding position. Marzocchi recommends 20-30% of DH travel in sag to provide the best overall ride. The easiest way to measure sag is to put a zip tie around the stanchion and then measure how much the fork compresses when the rider is in the normal riding position. Keep in mind that the normal riding position on a DH bike may not be correct on level ground.

Low speed rebound (RED) + High speed rebound (SLIVER)

Rebound Damping
Rebound damping controls the rate in which the fork is able to extend. All Marzocchi forks have adjustable rebound damping. Rebound damping should be set fairly fast, but without causing a sudden, harsh force back to the rider. This will allow the fork to comfortably extend to full travel as soon as possible after impact.
The 380's damping adjuster's are located at the base of the right hand leg, with low speed adjustment in RED and high speed adjustment in SILVER.

Low speed adjustment is for low velocity movements with high speed for high velocity movements. Turning the adjuster's clockwise will slow the rebound speed and therefore turning the adjuster's counter-clockwise will speed up rebound.

It is a good idea to get a feel for how the different rebound adjustments affect the fork. Try turning the adjuster all the way counter-clockwise to the fastest rebound setting and then quickly compress and release the suspension several times. Next test the fork with the adjuster turned all the way clockwise and then somewhere in between. This will demonstrate the differences between damping settings.


Low speed compression (GOLD) + High speed compression (ORANGE)
Compression Damping
Compression damping is the oil flow resistance felt when compressing the fork. Compression damping is categorized in two ways: low speed compression and high-speed compression. Low speed compression refers to when the fork is compressed slowly and gradually, for example during rolling impacts and rounded bumps. High-speed compression refers to the resistance felt during multiple, hard impacts and square-edged bumps.Too much compression damping creates a harsh ride because the suspension cannot compress rapidly enough to absorb large impacts. Compression damping is not a substitute for proper spring rate and should not be adjusted until the fork has the proper spring set-up for the rider.
The 380 features a 3 stage compression circuit (all shims) with adjustable high and low speed damping with the 3rd stage (MID) controlled and adjustable via a shim change (never needed). The MID stage is specifically set for smoothing the transition between high and low stages.

The compression adjuster's on the 380 is located at the top of the RH leg, with low speed adjustment in GOLD and high speed adjustment in ORANGE. Low speed adjustment is for low velocity movements and is useful to dial our brake dive with high speed for high velocity movements and useful for making the fork more progressive. Turning the adjuster's clockwise will slow the compression speed (firmer) and therefore turning the adjuster's counter-clockwise will speed up compression (softer).



DBC Damping
The semi-open bath cartridge combines the damping feeling and the reliability of the open bath cartridge with the lightweight of a closed cartridge.
A compensation port releases any excess oil out of the damper into the lower leg keeping the bushings and wipers lubricated. As soon as the oil level in the cartridge decreases, oil volume is instantly restored by bringing the previously expelled oil back inside. The DBC cartridge use less oil than the full open bath design, thus saving weight and because the cartridge is also open it can’t fail like a closed damper.
A unique feature of the 380's DBC cartridge is that the complete compression module can be removed from the damper (and fork) without dismantling the fork front he bike.

Torque Settings (NM)
Bottom crown fixing screws 6±1
Fork leg top caps 20±1
Pumping element locking bottom nuts 10±1
Pumping element/cartridge bottom nuts 10±1
Rebound adjustment knob fixing screws 2±0.5
Top crown fixing screws 6±1
Wheel axle Allen screws 6±1
Wheel axle screws 15±1

Spares
8501682/P: 20mm Taperwall axle
8507017/P: Axle pinch bolt screws (titanium) (11pcs)
7051315FB/P: Lower crown with tapered steerer, flat black
7051316FB/P: Lower crown with 1" 1/8 steerer, flat black
501641FB/P: Upper crown, flat black
8501760/P: 38mm SKF Seal Kit
507963GD/P: 38mm Espresso Stanchion (pair) 

NOTE: This page will be updated



42 comments:

  1. What are some base tune settings to start off with?

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  2. How does the cartridge draw oil back inside? I cannot see any other oil ports near the bottom of the cartridge. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

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    Replies
    1. at the base of the cartridge where the rod enters the main body there is a one-way seal, this is so oil can enter the cartridge but cannot exit.

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  3. We are UK based company who specialise in performance base layers and compression wear. We take pride in offering great high quality compression products at amazing prices. We believe customer service is integral to our success and we constantly strive to provide the best service possible to all of our customers. Here are options for compression top, compression tights, compression leggings, compression shorts and Baselayer.

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  4. how to identify if the fork is a 2014 or 2015? package did not reference the year and it also came with an additional spring with no markings. What size is the extra spring?

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    Replies
    1. the 2014 fork had shiny Nickle stanchions and was part 9141500S or 9141501S (tapered), these had a medium spring in the fork and a hard in the box. The 2015 had Espresso stanchions and was part 9151207S or 9151206S (tapered), these had hard springs in the fork and x-hard in the box.

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  5. Torque Settings when you say 6+1 do you mean 7nm?

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  6. 6NM + or - 1NM, so maximum torque would be 7NM and minimum torque 5NM

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  7. Can someone tell me what the top crown / steer tube clamp torque specs are and are they the same as the top crown clamp bolt torque specs?

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  8. The top and bottom are the same, + or - 6NM

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  9. Do you know if it's possible to lower the travel and make the fork sit an inch deeper similar to how the fox 40 is travel adjustable internally thanks

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    Replies
    1. sorry, it isn't possible to do this due to the fixed lengths of the coil springs available.

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  10. hi, When I adjust the low speed rebound fully in , it also seems to have a considerable effect on compression damping, is this normal?

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    Replies
    1. yes, when making adjustments it is normal to have to back one adjustment off to compensate for a big adjustment on another circuit.

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  11. My 2015 380 sticks during low speed extention..like 3 times per stroke

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    Replies
    1. you will need to strip the DBC and check the rebound needle for imperfections or blockages, clean it, then try with fresh oil?

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  12. I have the 2014 model. The compression dials are jammed together with grit (I think). Do these come off easily, if so how? I think they just need a clean. Thanks

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    Replies
    1. try blasting them with GT85 to dislodge any muck that is jamming them. Remove them and give them a clean, add fresh grease and re-assemble.

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  13. Hi I recently bought these what's the taper wall for do I have to use it or what's it for?
    Also this is from the 2016 model

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  14. Taper wall refers to the variable wall thickness of the stanchions and of the axle, the wall thickness is varied as it saves weight. It does not effect anything else.

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  15. Hi where can I buy a new lower crown/ steerer ? To suit 2014 380.
    Thanks

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  16. Where can I get hold of a lower crown/steerer for 380s

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    Replies
    1. the part will be available via Marzocchi dealers or to order via any good IDB. Try your local bike shop, they might surprise you!

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  17. What type of oil use, 5wt, 7wt or 10 wt.

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  18. The Wt oil depend the weight of the rider, or the DBC can work with specific Wt oil viscocity. Thank You for your response

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  19. SAE 7.5w is stock, using 5w will give you a lighter damping range while using 10w will give you a heavier damping range.

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  20. what are the weight ranges for the Ti springs?

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    Replies
    1. 120-155lbs soft
      145-180lbs medium
      180-220lbs hard
      210-250lbs x- hard

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    2. Hi, do the weight ranges you've posted for the ti springs also apply to the steel springs?
      Thanks
      Andrea

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    3. yes, the guide is the same

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  21. Where to buy medium ti spring

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  22. can you tell me what the oil levels are including the dbc cartridge? thanks

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    Replies
    1. these don't take a traditional volume like an open bath fork, you bleed the cartridge and you add 25cc external fork leg oil for lubrication.

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  23. Hi Dan, is it possible to know how many "click" the five adjustments have? I ask this because some of them are very hard to turn (expecially High Speed Compression top red one) and it is not easy to count the click. If I don't know how many click I have in total I cannot for instance start with 50% of the click. Thanks! best regards, Andrea

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    Replies
    1. I count:
      Low speed compression (centre top, gold) 18 clicks
      High speed compression (outside top, orange) 17 clicks
      Low speed rebound (centre bottom, red) 15 clicks
      High speed rebound (outside bottom, grey) 8 clicks

      The clicks will vary + or - 1 due to the threads in manufacturing.

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    2. thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  24. hi dan, i have recieved my 2016 c2r2 titanium forks today, what spring will come with them and whats the spare spring that has come with them?

    regards

    harry

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    Replies
    1. You have a hard ti spring in the fork and a spare steel x-hard spring in the box for you to try if needed.

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  25. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  26. I have just recently purchased a 2015 c2r2 ti. Now it came with spare spring , a heavier one I believe, in the box. Is this spare spring titanium or steel

    Thanks
    Whitey

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