Monday, 20 April 2015

Travel change for the 350 NCR (CR) series.

Travel change for the 350 NCR (CR) series.

We categorize procedure as advanced, only undertake this if you are a competent mechanic with access to the correct tools and working environment. If you are in any doubt please ask a professional to perform this process for you.

1/ Remove air-valve dust cap and let the air out of the fork.
2/ Using a 27mm socket, un-screw the air plug and then completely remove the plug and air tube from the station.
3/ Using a 1.5mm hex key, remove the rebound adjuster
4/ Using a 5mm hex key, remove the RH foot nut
5/ Using a 12mm socket, remove the LH foot nut
6/ Separate the upper assembly from the lowers
7/ Remove the dust seal external springs and remove the dust seals. NOTE: Removing the dust seals makes refitting the upper assembly easier.
8/ Once the dust seals have been remove re-fit the external springs (removing the springs prevents damage to the seal).
9/ Using cir-clip pliers remove the cir-clip from the base of the air leg and remove rod assembly.
10/ Remove the disc from the base of the leg, this is a tight fit and may require tapping off with a small hammer.
11/ Remove negative spring.
12/ Install travel spacer and push until you hear an audible click.
13/ Re-install the negative spring and push until you hear an audible click.
14/ Re-install the disc to the bottom of the rod, again this may need tapping down with a small hammer.
15/ Re-install the rod in to the base of the stanchion and re-install the cir-clip. NOTE: Check the cir-clip seating and make sure it’s fully in its groove.
16/ Install the dust seals on to the stanchion and re-fit the upper assembly. BE CAREFUL! Make sure the stanchions do not tear the oil seals as the stanchions pass through them.
17/ Re-fit both foot nuts and torque to 10NM + or – 1NM.
18/ Re-fit the rebound adjuster and secure using the 1.5mm hex key.
19/ Press the dust seals back in to the lower legs.
20/ Invert the air tube and place 25ml of 7.5w oil inside.
21/ Invert the fork and re-install the air tube. NOTE: You will need to tap the air tube in with your hand to get it past the piston head on the rod assembly, as the tube goes in the pressure inside it will increase so make sure you expel the air to make installing easier.
22/ Using the 27mm socket re-fit the air plug and torque to 20NM + or – 1NM
23/ Re-inflate to your desired pressure
24/ Check travel.

Part numbers for travel change spacers:

536181 = 20mm spacer
536216 = 10mm spacer

CR model: the procedure is pretty much the same except that the air tube in the CR is not removable.


350R internal for reference only


82 comments:

  1. Very helpful guide! In step 20 you write that we have to place 25ml of 7.5w oil inside the air tube. Do we also have to place 25ml of 7.5w oil inside the cartridge tube?

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  2. I think you a referring to the same thing, please watch the video and all will be clear!

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  3. I 've watched the video and i have one question. Marzocchi says on their web site that we have to place 25ml of 7.5w oil on the right fork leg and another 25ml on the left fork leg. The guide says that we have to place 25ml of oil only on the side of the air tube. What about the other fork leg?

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  4. The damper leg does indeed take 25ml, but because of the damper (which is full of oil and re-circulates anyway) it is simpler to ignore it for the sake of changing the travel. You need to add the oil back in to the air tube as there is no other oil in it, so this is essential. So you can add oil in BOTH legs, but its not a deal breaker.

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  5. On cuanging the travel the dust seals are removed and then replaced using a tool to press them back in, where do we get this or is there an alternative we can use? Do we need to definitely remove the dust seals to do this?

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    Replies
    1. we only remove the dust seal so we can visually inspect the oil seal as the stanchion passes through it, as it can be damaged if care isn't taken. It is possible to insert the stanchions back in without removing the dust seal, just be careful.

      The dust seal tool is part number R5213/C, but rather than buy a tool you can re-seat the dust seals with a large flat bladed screw driver, again be careful!

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  6. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  7. This is great, I have been looking for some tech info on the 350 for quite a while now.
    On the 350 CR, does the rebound adjuster knob just pull out? I cant see any hex key.
    If its not to much asking, could you show an exploded view of the 350 CR as well? That would be really helpful.

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    Replies
    1. yes the rebound knob just pulls off, diagram added!

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    2. Muchas gracias, made my day :-)

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    3. do we need special tool to pull off the compression knob?

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  8. Should there be oil added to each leg of the lowers?
    Also when removing travel spacer and returning fork to full travel should you add 25cc oil to air chamber?

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  9. yes, oil in both legs. the fork leg only needs 25cc regardless of travel.

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    Replies
    1. Thanks for reply. How much oil in each of the lower legs.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. That's great, thanks again.

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  10. hi Dan thanks for posting this guide it very helpful . I am about to try to split a new 2014 320lr and remove the spacer to adjust travel from 100 mm to 120 mm . i have found oil chart which says 10cc in each lower leg . other than that is the process much the same as the video for the 350 fork ? thanks for our help Tam

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    Replies
    1. its the same for the LR model! cheers

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  11. where do I find the travel spacer?

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    Replies
    1. each fork has one included in the box, if you need one you can order it via your local friendly bike shop!

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  12. The information which you have provided is very good. It is very useful who is looking for Brass Pnuematic Fittings and Adaptors

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  13. how much can the fork be lowered. can it go as low as 100mm?
    i would like a stiffer 100mm fork.

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    Replies
    1. absolutely, that is how the 55 Slope was originally made for Sam Pilgrim by taking a 170mm 55CR and dropping it down to 100mm!

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  14. Hi, is the travel reduction procedure the same for a set of 350r forks? Is there anything different I need to know compared to the above instructions?

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  15. The 350R is a coil sprung model, so technically you can travel change as above you have to junk the coil spring and convert it to air as there are no shorter main coil springs available.

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    Replies
    1. I have a marzocchi 350r 2016 which I have lowered to 140mm using the Marzocchi 350cr spacer. In regards to coil length when you lower a 350r the coil just becomes preloaded the more you lower the fork. (wouldn't drop the fork lower than 140mm). Because the coil is preloaded less air assist is needed to compensate for sag so smoother fork. Using less air assist then leaves you with a bottoming out issue which is remedied by swapping out coil side 7.5w oil to 10w oil which helps reduce bottoming out due to oil being forced though a small port hole in the coil rod.
      You can also try this trick even if you run standard length forks if you are a heavier rider.

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    2. Personally I feel 20mm pre-load is too much and you probably have got a harsh top out? For progression, try adding more oil volume? A higher volume will make the air inside the fork (even 0psi forks have air in them) reach a higher pressure when the fork compresses. This is the same trick as adding Rock Shox's bottom out tokens, but cheaper.

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  16. Thanks, can the spring be removed and just run on air pressure or does the fork require replacement parts?

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    Replies
    1. we have now tried this in the workshop and to be honest it doesn't feel that great. The CR (AIR model) has a slightly different ID to the stanchion compared to the R and it allows the use of an AIR tube. The Air tube (AER system) gives the fork its smooth feel and without it the performance is not so good. So after some playing around with the 350R the conversion to air spring is something that I cannot recommend doing.

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  17. Hey Dan,

    Thanks for sharing this info regarding the CR and some tips for the R, which is what I have.

    For the R, is there a way to get a firmer spring? Will the Ti spring work?

    Thanks,
    Bryan

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    Replies
    1. unfortunately there is only one compatible spring for the 350/55R and that's the stock spring, your only option to make the fork harder is to use the air pre-load feature. Be careful how much air you use as you will lose small bump sensitivity if the pressure is too high.

      55 - 65 kg (121 – 143lbs) 1 BAR (14.5 psi)
      65 – 85 kg (143 – 187lbs) 1.5 BAR (21.75 psi)
      85 - 105 kg (187 – 231lbs) 2 BAR (29 psi)

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    2. Quote: "Be careful how much air you use as you will lose small bump sensitivity if the pressure is too high.

      55 - 65 kg (121 – 143lbs) 1 BAR (14.5 psi)
      65 – 85 kg (143 – 187lbs) 1.5 BAR (21.75 psi)
      85 - 105 kg (187 – 231lbs) 2 BAR (29 psi)"

      This now makes good sense as when ever added over 2 BAR forks ride became too harsh for my weight (approx 85kg with all riding gear)... thanks

      is it safe to say I could ride the NCR Ti fork with no added air in the chamber?

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  18. Hi Dan,

    Thanks for responding!

    I have tried the air preload and the fork just felt way too harsh and "notchy" to get the sag I need; it already feels a bit notchy even without the air preload.

    Does the Ti not physically fit or is it a best practice scenario? Would the 55 spring be stiffer than what the R originally comes with?

    Thanks again,
    Bryan

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    Replies
    1. the 55 and 350 spring are the same and the Ti spring wont fit. have you tried greasing beneath the dust seal?

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    2. Hi Dan,

      Thanks again for replying about my spring question. Will I void my warranty by doing it myself? The fork only has 4 rides so far. I will try to get some slick honey under the seal tonight if I know I won't get burned on warranty.

      Thanks kindly,
      Bryan

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    3. no, it wont effect your warranty and will improve performance no end!

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    4. Will do, and thanks so much Dan!

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    5. Dan,

      Could you share a parts diagram, like the two above, for the 350 R? I have dropped the lowers and the seals were bone dry so I'm confident your advice to grease them will be beneficial.

      Thanks,
      Bryan

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    6. image attached above as requested.

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    7. Thanks Dan,

      I have since packed grease in the seals, and the difference is huge! The fork is no longer "notchy" and I am now able utilize the air preload more efficiently; the stiction was actually hampering my ability to set proper sag and was adding too much preload. All is well now, the process of pulling the lowers is very simple which will make oil replacement a breeze.

      Thanks again!
      Bryan

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  19. Can you purchase the spacer for the 350 cr model, and is it the same as the ones listed for the 44, corsa and marathon (part #536181)? If the fork is currently set up for 150mm, will the spacer take it down to 130mm or is there a different spacer in there now (reducing it 10mm) that needs to be removed and replaced to set the fork up at 140mm (reducing it 20mm)? I want to have the fork at 140mm if possible.

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  20. the spacer 536181 is the correct part and you will need to add one to drop the travel from by 20mm. You will need to remove the original 10mm spacer and fit the 20mm and it will give you 140mm.

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  21. Is it possible to lower the travel to lets say 120-130mm on the 350CR?

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    Replies
    1. yes, for 130mm use 1 x 20mm and 1 x 10mm travel spacer, for 120mm use 2 x 20mm travel spacers.

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    2. Does the fork come with some travelspacer?

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    3. the fork is supplied with a 20mm spacer in the box. To order separately the 20mm spacer is part number 536181 and 10mm spacer is part number 536216

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    4. Same on the 350 NCR? I'm on the verge of getting one but I need it at 120mm.

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  22. How different is this procedure for a 350 NCR Ti fork? I'm just interested in being able to drop the lowers, lube the wipers with Molykote, refresh the splash oil, and reassemble.

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    Replies
    1. basically the same, the NCR just has a more technical damper.

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    2. I read the 350 NCR Ti came with spacers in a forum post and the description at bike-components.de says the fork is travel adjustable by spacers. Anyway i can't figure out how adjusting travel by spacers can be possible without preloading the spring.
      The question was just about the disassemble and reassemble procedure?
      Does anybody know if i can reduce the travel and more importantly the axle to crown length at the titanium version?

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    3. The Coil fork cannot be travel adjusted for precisely that reason, and there are no shorter travel springs available. Only the Air forks can be travel adjusted.

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  23. Hola Dan, si hay modelos de 350R con 150mm, como seria posible reducir la que tengo de 160mm a esos 150mm, gracias

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    Replies
    1. su es difícil viajar ajustar el 350R correctamente ya que no hay 150mm muelle helicoidal electrónico disponible fortaleza del tenedor de trabajar. Disculpas por la traducción en español !!!

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  24. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  25. Hi there,

    it is possible to bring the 2015 350CR from 160 to 170mm?
    If yes which spacer should i have to remove?

    http://www.marzocchi.com/template/detailProdotti.asp?LN=UK&idC=1551&IdFolder=113&idMY=62224&IdOggetto=20290

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  26. Unfortunately the technical details on the 170mm CR are not yet available. I would assume it has longer damper rods to achieve the travel as the 2015 cannot be extended past 160mm, but as I say the details are not available to say for sure.

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    Replies
    1. Thanks a lot Dan,

      the stroke on the web site say 170mm, but before dismantle the fork i wanted to be sure on what spacer remove..
      I will keep it at 160 for now

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    2. Hi Dan,

      I havve a plan to buy 350 NCR, is it possible to change the travel becoming 170mm?

      Cheers,
      Revie

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    3. the 170mm fork is not in the market yet and the 160mm fork cannot be extended.

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. Is there anything new about extending the 350 to 170mm? I´ve got the internals of a MZ 55 170mm Available. Damper also makes 180mm. Maybe that´s a worthy upgrade to a 350r. I´m wondering if bushing positions and stanchions are identical for 160 and 170mm. If yes, It´s worth opening the forks and check if the conversion works. Does anybody have experience with that?

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    6. the 55 is about 10mm shorter than the 350 for the given travel so it wont work, plus the damper would let the crown bottom out on the seal so it definitely wont work.

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  27. how can i remove the rebound adjuster from 350r fork?

    thanks

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    Replies
    1. I couldn't get mine out without mangling it. Get decent purchase (grip) with some pliers and yank it straight out. They chose to use plastic for this part and I do not see a way to remove and avoid marring or deforming it.

      Best.

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    2. it is very tight, but just pull it.

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    3. I'll try. thanks for Reply.

      best

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  28. Hello Dan, I have a 350 NCR and Just in 9 months it developed play between legs and stanchions. Do you know if this is covered by warranty or if there is a way to repair it?

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  29. I would suggest talking to your dealer/ service centre directly about this?

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  30. Hey Dan, I have a 2014 350 CR just had my local bike shop do a yearly maintenance on my fork (replace seals/oil) and it came back with no damping. Bike shops verdict is that the damping unit is bad. They said they followed their "video" for bleeding the circuit twice and still the damping is shot. Is it possible the unit was reinstalled incorrectly (a video I saw says the circuit cannot be compressed when installed)?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. it is very unlikely that the damping unit is 'bad'. If the damper worked previous to the service then the shop is responsible for whatever happened between then and now. My feeling is that no damping would be just air trapped inside, so a bad dbc bleed. You can follow the LR DBC bleed video here http://marzocchiworkshop.blogspot.co.uk/p/videos.html

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  31. Hi Dan.

    I have a 2015 350ncr and on marzhoccis site it says I need sae 90 oil in one leg and 7.5w in the other. Have sourced the 7.5w easily enough but can't find anything about 90 oil. Can you point me in the right direction. Thanks

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    Replies
    1. 7.5W is the oil type, 90cc (ml) is the volume

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. ://www.marzocchi.com/support/forks/2015/350-ncr-160.aspx?idC=62354&idM=20328-1571-1560&idMy=20302&idP=20308-720&idS=20438

      Please check this link under the tech section, oil levels are 25 In each leg but it says 2 different types. That's what I mean. Thanks

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    4. https://www.marzocchi.com/support/forks/2015/350-ncr-160.aspx?idC=62354&idM=20328-1571-1560&idMy=20302&idP=20308-720&idS=20438

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  32. just use the same oil in each leg, it is fine!

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    ReplyDelete